#10 - From Awareness to Action: Combatting Domestic Violence Together with Vasu Siva

Join host, Chelsea, and special guest, Vasu, in a powerful episode addressing the urgent issue of domestic violence. They emphasize the importance of awareness and proactive action. Vasu, a general practitioner, shares her experiences dealing with domestic abuse cases and highlights the need for healthcare professionals to provide support.

Episode Highlights:

1. Raise awareness about domestic violence with alarming statistics.
2. Cultural and social factors contributing to domestic violence are discussed, emphasizing its impact on all genders.
3. Discuss our role in supporting domestic violence victims with empathy and judgment-free spaces is highlighted.
4. The importance of self-care, gradual change, self-awareness, and education about domestic abuse is emphasized.

This episode is a compelling call to break the silence surrounding domestic violence, promoting a safer and more empathetic world for all. Listen now to join the conversation. 

Vasumathy Sivarajasingam, known as Vasu, is an accomplished General Practitioner with over two decades of experience as a GP partner at Hillview Surgery in West London. She graduated from Ninewells Hospital and Medical School in 1995 and completed her vocational training scheme at Royal Devon and Exeter Hospital in 1999. Vasu's clinical expertise spans diverse areas, particularly focusing on women's health and family planning. Beyond clinical responsibilities, she actively engages in non-clinical roles, notably in Health and Human Resources. As the Primary Care Clinical Lead for Adult Mental Health, Green Agenda, and Patient Engagement in Ealing Borough, Vasu is dedicated to enhancing healthcare sustainability and patient well-being. She has been recognized for pioneering environmentally conscious practices and actively addressing social issues, including raising awareness about domestic abuse and reducing health inequalities.


Children who see domestic abuse are victims too. Insightful DA awareness video accessible via this link: https://hiyos.org/children-who-see-domestic-abuse-are-victims-too/, offers a poignant perspective from a child's viewpoint.

Domestic abuse – Ask for help!

National Domestic Abuse Helpline: Run by Refuge, this helpline offers free confidential support and advice 24/7. You can reach them at 0808 2000 247

Women’s Aid: Women’s Aid is a national organization that provides support and resources for women experiencing domestic abuse. They have a network of local services across the UK.

Men’s Advice Line: This helpline offers support and advice specifically for male victims of domestic abuse. You can reach them at 0808 801 0327

LGBTQ+ Domestic Abuse Helpline: This helpline provides support for members of the LGBTQ+ community experiencing domestic abuse. You can contact them at 0800 999 5428

Childline – 0800 1111 

www.childline.org.uk 

(Free and confidential helpline for

Always and Never About Money Episode Links:
Video Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@MoneyMasteryWithChelsea
Socials: https://linktr.ee/the_money_whisper
Money Mastery Website: www.moneymastery.work
Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/AlwaysandNeverMoney/

Transcript

Hey, listeners, so we have a really, really meaningful episode for you today. So I have with me Vasu Siva, who I met because of my personal passion around domestic violence. And we're gonna talk about that more like my personal experiences with that. But what I have done with my experience around domestic violence is I, I have taken my pain and turned it into influence, impact, and it's almost like a power of mine. So I was doing a lot of research online about getting involved with causes that are really out to help this issue that the world is facing. And I ran across a research program and I just shot in the dark, reached out to all the people that it listed on the paper, and we went back and forth a little bit. 

I was gonna get involved in me and Vasu just kind of immediately connected over email. And then we met in person and started talking to each other. We're both very passionate about this, and we decided, you know what? We need to do a podcast episode together and really bring awareness and compassion and education to the topic of domestic violence. So, Vasu, thank you so much for working with me all this time to put this episode together. 

Speaker 1
Thank you, Chelsea. And it's amazing how we met, and I, it's really delighted to be here. And I'm so glad that we are doing this episode. As I said, this is a really sensitive topic. It's pervasive, intricate, it's a private personal matter. In fact, it can affect anyone. And, you know, anyone can be an abuser, anyone can be a victim. And I think we have a duty to protect our people who are experiencing this abuse. And we have to make sure our community, we need to pre create a community which is safe and compassionate. So yeah, I'm really pleased that we are, you know, we joined together with this podcast and yeah, let's talk about it. 

Speaker 0
Yes. Yes. And you can just hear Vasu's heart, right? Like, you can already see that this is something she's passionate about, something that she wants to bring mass awareness to for the better of the whole vasu's, a general practitioner or a family doctor in West London. So tell us a little bit about what it is that you do there, what your kind of mission is before we get into the, the heavy stuff. Yeah. 

Speaker 1
So as I said, I'm a, I've been a GP for more than 20 years now. And I must admit, when I joined, when I was in the undergraduate postgraduate, we, I didn't know much about domestic abuse. I knew the concept. There's, you know, there's domestic abuse and we talk about safeguarding, but I don't remember having a topic as such. And we talked about it. There's more awareness now, especially since Covid, I must admit. But as a clinician, as a GP family doctor, when I was working I, over the 20 years, I was really shocked at the beginning when patients came to me to open up and talked about it. And at that point, I didn't know what to do. 

All I was doing is listening. I guess that's what they wanted at that point. But I felt like I wasn't doing enough because listening was not enough for me. I mean, it was, it was great because they were ev able to offload their emotional pain, if you like, but I felt that I needed to do something that made me look into, and I talked to the support services around and got them to come to our surgery. Another point, even in my team, people weren't aware. 

And so we got people to come over, like advocate to demonstr, give you support services advocate to come up and talk to our patients, not patients for us. So that we, we are able to talk to our patients in the right, ask the right questions, not shy away from people who coming to, to who need us, who need look at us for support. So I'm, I, so a lot of work has gone in there in, in the sense that we became a, a domestic gibb abuse aware practice where we put up posters in the, in the toilets or waiting room. And so that, that's how my journey started. And I was known as a pers as a doctor who was interested in domestic abuse. So, so kept on learning about it, reading about it, and then, then covid hit, and then there was another problem set up. So yeah, that's how he, you know, so there, there's a lot more I could tell about how I got involved. So, yeah. 

Speaker 0
No, I love it. And I think that what's really, what hits me about your story is you are a doctor, right? A practitioner. And we don't think about going to the doctor and getting help on things that don't have to do with like our body health, our physical health. And the fact that you heard those people and you listened to those people, not only that, but then you turned around and was like, okay, it's not enough to listen. Like clearly this is an issue and you were moved to do something about it. And the reason why it's so important, so for those of us in, in the us, domestic abuse is very prominent. 

So we are ranked in the US 10th overall in the world when it comes to domestic abuse. One in three women, and one in four men have experienced some form of physical violence by an intimate partner. And this includes a range of behaviors. And on average, nearly 20 people per minute are physically abused by an intimate partner in the United States. And during one year, this equates to more than 10 million women and men. So the statistics around how often this is happening and, and how it shows up are absolutely undeniable. And I'm sure in the UK the statistics are staggering as well. 

Speaker 1
Absolutely. I mean, it's, it's really sad to know these figures really, because there's so much we can do. And what we need to remember is there's not a new phenomenon. It's been there all the time. It's been hidden behind doors. And I think it's, it's time that we speak up about it and then put a stop. Because what we need to remember is this abuse is, is it's not, there's no excuse for this kind of abuse. It's unacceptable unjustifiable, and we can't give anymore excuses for such behavior. And you were talking about the statistic in uk according to crime survey, survey for England and Wales, ear year ending March 20, 22, 2 0.4 million adults experienced this abuse. And I was looking at the, the total amount of total population in northwest London, where, where I am, and 2.4 million adults are there. Well, 2.4 million people are there. 

So that tells you the extent of the people who are affected and the emotional pain that they're going through. And one in five adults experienced abuse at some stage in the age of 16, and not just as adults, the children, there are evidence to suggest that one in seven children and young people aged under six, 18 years have experienced some form of abuse. Remember, our children are our future and remember the situation they're in and the experience, the, you know, we, we can talk about the impact that it has on our children. And they, they, they have no idea This is the learned behavior if we let this happen, and they'll think it's normal to behave the way they are doing. Yeah. 

So it's really, it's really scary if, if, if this is what our word is going to be. And there's, in uk two women are killed by their partner or ex-partner in every a, a week. I mean, that is awful. 

And you know, there's so many, I mean, now we know in, in, in London, one in eight crimes in London is related to domestic abuse. And the incidents are increasing. 

And I was reading about the report, number of reports going reported to a police, and every 32nd domestic abuse case is being reported to police. And this is less than 24% of the total case being reported because most of the domestic abuse cases are unreported or unrecorded for lots of different reasons. You know, we'll come into that later about the challenges face facing the victims. So we can see how much is going around. And this is the tip of the iceberg, what we see, and it's already, we are looking at it and we are thinking, my goodness, this is a lot of people having going through these kind of trauma, mental trauma, which is going to last for years. 

And the long-lasting effect is, you know, un it's not measurable. You can't measure it. 

Speaker 0
Yes, yes. And when it's a situation that like you don't feel great about anyway, it has become normalized in your life. Therefore, you're kind of thinking like, why would I bring this up to somebody? Right. Like, why would I talk to this? This is normal. Right? 

Speaker 1
Absolutely. And that you absolutely right, Chelsea. I mean, a lot of, a lot of the, I mean, one of the theories or one of the fact is it this such behavior in some cultural, religious and social is that norm is just being accepted because males, male, domineering community, and you know, male could be the one who is providing a provider for, for everything, for the, for, for shelter, clothing, anything, food. And it's accepted in some cultures to say it's okay for a man to say what they want. It's the female have to be submissive. And in that kind of environment, it's really bad for a male who is going through domestic abuse as well, because that male would feel I can't open up and say I am being abused because it'll be looked there, people will look down at me. 

So, so there is a, it's, it's a problem. You know, it's not just females. A male get affected as well in I think about if we have three victims, two victims are females and one victim are male, and there's more, I mean, there are a lot of evidence to suggest that male don't approach anyone. At least half of male don't approach. The victims don't approach anyone because they feel that it's a stigma or it's not right. Or, you know, and then there's more chance of a male to, there's a more chance of a female to approach someone and disclose about domestic abuse experience than a male. So these kind of culture, belief, normalization, it affects both genders, right? 

Speaker 0
Yeah. I think that's really important to say, right? Because we think of domestic abuse, and I think naturally people are like, oh, women, right? But there's this, this unique dynamic with men who have experienced domestic abuse because of that ti stigma, right? Like, because there's this, men are strong, men don't cry, men aren't weak, we don't talk about our emotions as men. Right? And so I would imagine that for a male that has gone through that, that is really heavy in spite of them. Yeah. And that's really negative energy that they hold inside of themselves that can absolutely spew out Yeah. In other areas of life. 

Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, we've heard, heard the saying isn't a man up and things like that. It doesn't help in, in situations and abuse kind of situation because you, you feel that you need to be strong. But when you are in the situation, when you're a victim, your self-confidence, self-esteem and your independence is taken away. You feel as if you, you are alone and you don't have any support. You feel all alone. Your word is empty. There's no one is supporting you. So whether it's a man or a female, you experience the same emotional trauma or a pain, right? So it's really important to be aware that anyone can be affected, whether it's even, you know, that's what they say every walks. 

It affects any, all walks of life. Whether you are rich, poor, you know, your race, gender, sexuality, social economic background doesn't matter. It affects everyone. I mean, I, I remember thinking in the past, you know, poverty is the only thing, you know, poverty and domestic abuse is a course and up upon sequence. But even the research that you were talking about that I was doing, and when I was interviewing people, what came to light, which is not a surprise, but it came to light to me, is even the wealthy people, they, they go through it. Because when you are wealthy, when you are in power, it, people don't question it. Hmm. 

And you do it for lots of different reasons. You don't wanna talk about it because it's a shame, it's a different kind of shame. And it's not allowed. So this is a really, you know, concern for public and the society. 

Speaker 0
Yeah. And that's a, that's a scary place to be. And I describe it 'cause I have been in abusive relationships in my life, and I describe it as being stuck inside of the bubble. When you justify the actions, when you isolate yourself, when it becomes normal, when that self-confidence deteriorates your inside of the bubble and you can't see from outside of it. And you know, people that love you and want to help, you can't because you are stuck in this place. Right? And so regardless of the demographics, the race, the gender, all of the things, you have this cocoon, whether it be wealth, right? 

Whether it be the stigma of men can't show weakness, whatever that is, it, it, it kind of festers in that bubble and it's really hard to see it for what it is at the moment. 

Speaker 1
Yeah, absolutely. I, and I, I, I, I understand because I can see from the patients, from my colleagues, you know, I understand how people actually feel. Can I just mention now, Chelsea, when we are talking about this, which I should have talked about at the beginning as well. When we are talking about these emotional pain and all the experiences, there are a lot of the listeners who may feel they may accept, or they may not, may not even realize that they've been experiencing. So they may actually have these trigger warnings and it may make them sad or distressed. If that's the case, please stop listening. 

And if you feel that you want to talk to someone, just stop listening to what we have to say and go and talk to some trusted friend or a family member, or go and speak to your GP as in, you know, England, we say GP or a family doctor. 

And it's really important that you verbalize your emotions and need to get help. And at some point that you feel that you are in danger, your life is in danger, please seek out help and go to, you know, in England we say 9, 9, 9 dial. If your life is say, you know, in danger, dial 9, 9, 9. And the police take this really seriously approach them. And it's really important that you get help because there is help. One of the things about domestic abuse, what we had to say is, even in my research that I did, I'm doing now with the Imperial College, London with ARU unit, with a self-care academic research unit, and Austin is one of the core investigator. 

And there we found that many people don't even realize that they have these support services. I think in my previous paper that I published, we published together nearly half of the interviews, participants did not know there were available support services. So it's not just we talk about domestic abuse, they need to know where to get help and how to get help. I mean, that is it, you know, we, it's not, you know, people, as I said, this is not a new phenomenon because domestic abuse is a controlling it, it's a power and control behavior. It's a learned behavior. So it is about between two people, you know, showing that power and the control. 

So it's important that people reach out to, it's not some disease, it's not a, you know, it's a behavioral changes that you accept that is norm for you. 

So really important that people who are feeling, whether it's a perpetrator, whether it's a, a victim, there are help out there. Okay. I mean, a lot of the cases that even some perpetrators may not not realize because the way they're brought up normalization in the culture norm, they may feel that it's normal. They, until it's pointed out. So un unless we teach people that that behavior is wrong or point out to them, there are better ways of dealing with it. You know, they're not going to know. So it's not a blame game. It's important that there is support out there, no matter what. Whether it's a victim or a, a perpetrator, please go out and get help. 

And now there is more campaigns, more help out there. So it's really important that people do reach out for help. 

Speaker 0
Yeah, yeah. Especially in a situation where, you know, the perpetrator doesn't realize it because that's what they were raised around. Right? It was that norm for them, and now they are living out their norm. 

Speaker 1
Yeah, absolutely. It absolutely, I mean, I dunno about us in UK in 2021 that we have the legal di definition of domestic abuse. I think that was the best thing I think has happened. So, because one of the things that we need to remember is we used to call it domestic violence, then it came domestic violence and abuse. There's a confusion with domestic, domestic violence because a lot of research out there showing that when you talk about domestic violence, people think you need to be hit to be, to be having the diagnose or, you know, to say that you were being abused at, or you had domestically, you know, you had a violent relationship. 

So it is really important to use the terminology because domestic abuse as the UK legal, the guidance domestic abuse act in 2021, it talks about the behaviors abusive, and it includes all sorts of behavior, which is, which is unacceptable. Like, you know, not just physical sexual abuse talks about violent threatening behavior, cove behavior, controlling behavior. That is, that is a huge abuse, technological, you know, financial abuse, psychological, emotional, and any of the abuses, it incorporates that. The, the thing to remember is when we talk about physical abuse, it's just obvi. It's obvious. You have a bruise, you have a cut, and people say, you know, people give excuses, but it's obvious. But the emotional abuse, the controlling coercive abuse, psychological abuse, it's hidden. 

And it is so subtle and it's sustained. So nobody will know, unless you're specifically aware of someone behaving the way they are behaving. It's really, really hard to look into it. And then un unless like we are, you know, alert and look beyond what people are looking, I i, i, if you know, and this is even really difficult in children. In, in, in uk people, children who are under 18 years who see, hear, or experience abuse are under domestic abuse. And obviously that goes into child abuse as well. So that's really important because in the past we used to say, our children, you know, they, they, they won't know about what's happening. They know, they, they, they can, they have this power of learning and they look at you and then learn from you. So I'm really pleased that, you know, children has been in, in, in incorporated into our domestic abuse act. 

So it's really key that learning behavior, unlearning these, you know, horrible, nasty, wicked behavior, abusive behaviors. We need to teach people. I mean, it's just start from, from the time they were born, really, they, they're born, right? 

Speaker 0
Yeah. I think we underestimate what young people comprehend and what they take in and what they observe. And in the US one in 15 children are exposed to intimate part partner violence each year. And 90% of these children are eyewitnesses to this behavior. Yeah. And so I think it's important, you know, you've talked a lot about, it's not just the physical, like it's other things as well. It's mental, it's financial. Can you expand on that a little bit just so we have that understanding of what all does this include. 

Speaker 1
When you, when, when you're talking about abuse generally, right. So when we are looking at, I mean, obviously let's look at the adults, the way they are experiencing the abuse. 

So when we are looking at adults, I, I talked about physical abuse, bruises and bites. And you know, they come in, I mean, I see patients who come in and they, they said they fell over and then on only after a while when they got the trust, they start talking open about it. And then you look at someone, the personality changes and then you think, you know, so there's come, they complain about, lately I've been feeling, you know, annoyed, I'm over sensitive, I'm apologetic, you know, I, I don't know, my personalities are being changed and I can't go out. They actually don't relate to it. They just talk about, they blame themselves and then talking about their personal issues. 

And then they, they mention, and then they always supporting their perpetrator. They're saying, you know, it's not his mistake, you know, it's, it's just we, their parents looked after them and he had a really difficult childhood or is very busy at work, you know, it's okay for him to lay out on us and it's all accepted. So they come up in a different ways, you know, and not just a straightforward, you know, he hit me or I pressurized into sex or, or any other sort of most obvious way where, where we say, okay, that is an abuse. Other ways, like, you know, they will wear clothes. It, they will be wearing like a long sleeve clothes when it's really hot and you think, what is it? Why, you know, is it because of cultural reason or is this something else? You know? 

So these are the things that we need to be a bit more aware of. 

And then when they're feeling low and when they feel belittle, and there are a lot of ways that they, they communicate with us. I mean, a lot of the times that people come with a physical problem or a, you know, not just a mental health problem like depression or post-traumatic stress disorder or anxiety. I mean, there are evidence to suggest that domestic abuse cause a threefold of depression and fourfold of yeah. Anxiety. And P T S D is sevenfold. So people, people come with their mental health problem. If we don't ask about domestic abuse, we'll never know the cause of the problem. We will think it's just an anxiety and how can we sort it out? 

And a lot of the people that we see in, you know, in healthcare we treat the symptom, we are not treating the course, right. So we they go through unnecessary investigation medication. Hmm. And you know it, and we still don't find the, the cause of it. And they still repe repetitive, come to the surgery and, you know, lots of frequent visitors, right? So there's a lot more that we need to think about. It's not just the mental, physical, you just thought holistically, we need to think about why they're coming. And children is another, another area that we need to think of. I mean, with children, they could come up to you and they simply, because they don't know how to express themselves, it could be a simple tummy ache. Yeah. So, or it could be they nightmares, they have or they're not doing very well at school. 

And then you think, okay, so the parents or the, or anyone who's bringing up bringing the child to see you, they say, oh, they're not doing very well. The school is complaining or, or they're feeling low, they're not opening up, they're feeling anxious, they can't sleep. Or they might say they're always aggressive, bullying and antisocial behavior, substance abuse, you know, alcohol, all sorts of things. They come up. But if we are not tuned, and if you're not aware of what could be, we could be tackling in a different, we could be going in a different path. We are not talking about the course of the problem. 

So they're going to keep on coming to you. And we are, we are going to normalize their behavior. But the course of the problem is completely different. And there are also reports that, you know, children harm the animals because they cannot express themselves. I mean, this is true for perpetrators as well as a, as a threatening, you know, they harm animals so that you feel bad, but the children, because they take it out from someone, right? So, so you see lots of different ways that they present, you know, some simple, you know, how many people that we see Chelsea with eating disorders, right? If we don't ask, I mean, I'm not too sure how many, I mean, including myself, I don't know how many times when the eating disorder you look, they look okay, you know, they come up and then they specifically don't ask that question about could they be domestically abused? They, because they, we just assume that they have an eating disorder because that's what it is, right? 

Speaker 0
Yes. Yeah. 

Speaker 1
So, so yeah. So I don't know that does does it answer the questions like, you know, so adults, I'm just like going in a different ways. 

Speaker 0
It does. And I just, I know that for my US listeners right now, our minds are completely blown because the healthcare system in the United States is very symptom treating. Okay? There is no holistic approach to like, think past the symptom, like put the pieces of the puzzle together. It's like we're chasing each piece, but the puzzle never comes together. And all we're doing is messing up the pieces so that the puzzle cannot even come together. And so I like the perspective that you bring where if you yourself or if you see other people or kids even, like if you're in the workplace and you see this, if you are with your friends and you see these things, like just being aware that it's not, it may not be what it seems. 

And if you see these patterns and these behaviors showing up in the people that you're around, the people that you love, the people that you care about, you know, this may be kind of how the inside is manifesting on the outside because of the emotional and the mental Yeah. Weight Yeah. That these situations leave people with. 

Speaker 1
Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, we need to, whether it's a healthcare professional, whether it is whether you are a, a, you know, a friend or a colleague or whatever you are, we need to look beyond what we see right in front of us. Know that, you know, we are not at a stage where people will come to you. Not all the time to say, I've been in domestic abuse. It's only a handful of people come to you because you need to have that courage and, and the self-confidence to courage, you know, to say that you are abused, it's not easy. And, and people, and I think Chelsea, most of the people think it's a private matter. You know, you don't want to get, even if you know your neighbors are going through this and you can hear the sound and you hear the voices and you think, you know, it's a personal private matter. I shouldn't be get, shouldn't get involved. 

But that's not true because this is a crime. And in UK it's a crime. And if we don't act now, it's a societal problem because we know that if we see or hear people going through this, it affects us whether we like it or not, it affects us because we are a human being. We are a social animal. We want to help people, we want to support people. So it does affect us. So it doesn't just, when, when there is a even, you know, episode of violence, it doesn't just affect the victim and the perpetrator, their families, their friends, their children, and the society. And you know, we, how many times that we hear people being abused in the news and then we feel bad, not just because our personal experiences, it just, we, it's a human thing, right? So you're talking about the work situation, workplace, I mean, to, for some victims, workplace is the place of safety. You know, this is really scary, right? Because they feel that's the only place they can go without the perpetrator watching over you. And they feel, so this is a tricky bit, right? Because when you come to work as an employer, I can, I can talk about it because as a GP partner and employer, we want the, you know, the pro we look at as part of hr, we want to look at effectiveness and productivity and or the rest of it. And when a, when you're faced with an employer, say for example, who comes late and not doing their work properly or showing some behavior, which you think that's not right. You know, you don't talk to people like that. You just snapping and, and then you go down the path of HR rules where whether it is a capability issue or performance issue or punishment or that or whatever, or grievance or whatever it is. But we, we need to understand, we need to actually look beyond what we are, you know, whether it's HR policies or whatever, we need to look beyond because it may be that person. 

We need to understand why the person is doing what it is. It's our duty. It's, you know, as a, it's a legal duty in uk and also it's our duty as an employer to look after our employees. So, so we have to be very careful of how we deal with people, whether it's a work situation or whatever it is, or a neighbor or anyone. We do really do need to look into it very carefully. Yeah. 

Speaker 0
Yeah. And I'm curious from your perspective, you know, I feel like with these situations you have to be very careful who you solicit advice from, who you run to help for, right? So in those situations, like what do you think we can do for those people? If we see the signs, if we see the situations, if we hear the neighbors next door, if we see that coworker, what, what can we do? What, what should we do? Yeah. 

Speaker 1
Yeah. Remember it is a private matter. Not everyone, they're going to open up to you because they're not ready yet. Because you know, each and every victim are in different stage, stage of their willingness to open up. Right? So all we can do is for us to be aware and approach them and say to them that why you are concerned. Like, you know, you can say, you know, you behave that way. I'm really concerned about you. Show them that, show them empathy, show them that you are there for them and just say that, you know, I'm really worried about you. It may be that they, they may open up when you say things like that because the human nature, they feel, oh my goodness, you know, someone really caress for me. 

They may open up, it may be they do not want to talk about it at that particular moment. It's okay. So don't dismiss them just because they say, I don't want to talk about it, but just tell them it's okay if you don't want to talk about it, but you know, I'm there for you. Please come and talk to me whenever this is something that we, you know, I find in my job even, you know, people come to you and then they, I think they want us to ask them say for, even if, when they ask sometime they don't want to tell the whole story. It's okay. As long as you make sure that your door is open, you can come back. It's okay. So that's the key. 

I think it's important for the victim or the survivor to know that they, this you are there for them. That's really important. And when the time comes when they're ready, they could come, come to you and then, then you can open up. And then if they do open up, then you can, you know, if it's a physical injury, you know, encourage them to go to their family doctor or an emergency if you need to. And if they, if they need to contact the police, if they don't want to do it, you do it for them and you take them, you take them. If they, if they, you know, offer it to them and say you are able to take them to a, you know, a e or casualty, I think, I think it's just being there. 

And the main thing is don't judge, I think you need to ask sensitively and safely as well. You know, you don't, you are not talking to them while you know the perpetrator listening to you, whether it's as a friend or a healthcare professional or whoever you are, you know, you do not want to talk to. And make sure you take them aside in a private place and explain so that they feel comfortable. I think it's a, the main thing is safe space. It's really key so that they feel they are heard in a safe environment and it's okay to talk and then validate when they talk to you, validate their experiences and say it's okay. 

And it's not okay to be abused. Okay? You can tell me, I am worried it's not okay to be abused, like the way you are, that behavior is not right because remember a lot of victims feel they give excuses for their perpetrators and they say it's okay. They always give lots of, lots of excuses. So make sure that you tell them that it's not okay, that behavior that is not healthy relationship, right? We, we, so that they're aware so that some point they will be ready because they remember they need to, a person has to be ready. They, we all develop at different stages and we all want to disclose at a different times. 

So it's important to give them the time and place and then as long as you tell them that you are there, that's all is that's most important. And then, you know, if you really as a health pro, healthcare professional, or as a fa as a friend or family member, there's nothing wrong with you giving, there's available support services. This is why I'm really keen to, in our DP surgery or generally it letting people know of, of the support services out there. Lot of people don't know, even I have to say there are a lot of services out there. I didn't know, I only found out only because I was interested and looked into, 'cause nobody comes to you and say these are the services or hasn't happened to me. But is it really important that we tell people the, the all the support services available, whether it's the national helpline, whether it is a safe space, whether, whether there is a, you know, there's a, I mean, in our area there's local domestic abuse support services. 

It doesn't have to be Chelsea that, you know, just because you are telling them these are the support services they need to leave the partner, it doesn't matter. That's another thing. You don't ask them to leave the partner because you don't know what the situation they're in. Right? So, so basically it's important that you tell them there are a lot of outreach support services out there where basically all they do is, I say all they do, but that the key thing that they do is to raise awareness about domestic abuse because a lot of the victims don't know about that and tell them that legal matters. They tell them the what's what other support services there, childcare, employment, education, how to empower themselves. Those, those things are really key, right? 

So before you, you even think of leaving or anything, beginning to think that you need to know where you are, what's the situation you are in and what support services out there. So, and, and also they will help you to make a safety plan, you know? Yeah. What, what to do in an, in an emergency situation where you know, the perpetrator's there and who's attacking you or just about to attack you, what safety plans, like for example, you know, do you have a bag full of important things that you could just pick up and run? Or can you keep that bag with someone else so that you can just leave? Or can you ring some someone without mentioning anything so that they know to call the police and all these cord Yes. That you may want to have. 

So all these things, you know, it'll be really important that people are aware and these advice are given by people who are giving the advice on a regular basis. So they're up to date. Yeah. With all the information, all the services out there. So it's really important for people to approach these support services. We are here to talk about increased awareness and what kind of help that, you know, there is available. But these people are, these support services, outreach services out there, they do these day-to-day every day. They are, they know, you know, some, some of them are actually themselves are abused, you know, during their lifetime. And then they, they made a change to their life and that they're supporting. 

So it's really important for the perpetrator and the victim to meet these people and so that they can improve, they can learn and improve their lives, right? 

Speaker 0
Yes. Oh my gosh, I appreciate so much about what you said. Like, to start from the beginning, I think it's important that people realize not everybody is ready. Not everybody in these positions is actually ready to Yeah. Talk about it. To reach out, to accept help, to pursue resources. 

And I was at that point in my life, right, where I just, I was in the bubble. I wasn't ready. And people that loved me continued to try to reach into the bubble and like yank me out, but I just wasn't ready. And the second thing that you said that I think is really important when you are the person outside of the bubble trying to reach the person inside of the bubble is approaching them with empathy and compassion and not judging them. Because in my experience, I had so many people trying to rip me forcefully out of the bubble, and then they would kind of shake their finger at me and be like, this is not good. You have to get out this, you know, just almost shaming me even further about the situation, which they didn't understand it at the time, but it just solidified my bubble even more and made it harder, you know? And eventually everybody got so frustrated that I had nobody. 

Yeah. And then I finally reached that point to where, okay, I am ready to actual, I am ready to actually do something. And when you decide that you are ready to do something, yeah, you go out and you find the way, right? Yeah. And to speak to the resources, I had no idea how many resources were out here for people in these situations. Like for me personally, I found an organization here in town that put me in a secret house that nobody had the address to, and it was very confidential. And I literally had to like, build my foundation, like rebuild everything. And it is such a process. So I think it's really important for people to have to be patient. 

You have to honor that person where that person's at without judgment. Like you have to honor that without judgment. Yeah. 

Speaker 1
Absolutely. I think you touched a really important point. I mean, before I go into that, I just want to make sure that people who are listening to us, Chelsea, that if they feel that they, they feel sad or distressed in any way, please stop listening and please seek our help because self-care is really important and your, your life is important, your safety is important. Please go out and get some help. Please do. So. I think, as I said, you touched a really important point that v you know, we talk about victims, you know, why, why don't they get help and things like that. But the willingness of a victim, I mean, it's not that people don't want to seek out help, that their willingness to seek out help, it really depends on lots of things, right? 

It depends on the type of abuse that you are having. You know, this is a physical abuse, sexual abuse is completely different to, well, it's the same feeling and the mental trauma, but they may, the compared to the subtle hidden trauma that you're going through, like, you know, a financial or emotional abuse that you may not think of as a violence is, you know, they may not think of it as a domestic abuse, right? So it depends. And, and also it depends on the re resilient of the person and the, you know, and the individual factors. Whether they have a dependence where they have children or they may be looking after their elderly parents and what do they do? They leave their family, you know, leave the home, what do you do? So who's gonna look after? 

And this person is feeding them so that, you know, it's all, it's all depends on, and, and beyond that, obviously, culture, society, normalization, like we talked about earlier, it all depends on that, right? So, so it's, it's not easy. It's not easy. So this is why prevention is really important, right? So it's easy to be in the situation where you know how to get out and sort. We are trying to solve the problem when it's happening. What, what wouldn't that be great if, if it didn't happen? So that we don't have to even think about what to do next. So the prevention, so that what we're, what's happening right now is really bad, but what we can do in the future for our children, for the next generation, right? Future generations, what can we do? 

Because we need to stop this, this, you know, ugly behavior. We have to stop it. What we really need to do is make people more aware. When people are more aware, what's the most important is when you are, I think when you're talking about awareness is the self-awareness is the real key. That is the key. That's what you were talking about earlier. 

So when we are talking about self-awareness, we are talking about self-control, self confided, the self-esteem and the independence so that we are not relying on someone telling us you are nothing. You, you are no good. You listen to what I say, you can't, you know, all these kind of things goes away. So the key thing for anyone who is going to make a change in that bubble they're in is the self-awareness of, you know, just, just get there. This, you can get it by a number of different ways depending on the personality you are. Some people don't need much help. Some people need a lot of help. It's absolutely fine. I always find that I, you know, reading the blogs of survivors really gives me power when they, when I think, wow, these guys are really, you know, can make a change and this is what we need to do. This is what, this is what you were talk telling about the earlier, right? Salesie, like, I think it's important that the negative feeling that you get negative experiences that you have, one option is to just, you know, don't do anything about it. And then you feel sad and you feel diminished, you feel, you know, betrayed, you feel awful feeling. 

The other thing is just on up and make yourself have a big control, you know, control yourself and take the negative points and turn it into positive, right? Small incremental changes. That's what we are asking. You can't just change immediately. Remember, these are learned behavior, you are affected big time. So what we need is a small changes in your life. That's what we are asking for. And that's when you become strong and you will not only help yourself, you are gonna help others as well. And then obviously the public campaigns are there that will tell us our duty as an individual person to do something good for our society because that is really important because we need to do, whether it's children, you know, learning, I think in UK healthy relationship is like a big thing we talk about in, in, in schools. 

I think we need to talk more about it where school need to talk about domestic abuse, talk about, because it's okay to talk about it because otherwise you don't know how the person is feeling at home, right? Because that's norm for them. So if you, in, in an external environment, a protective environment where the child believes what they're learning is really important to give a different, the true, you know, the fact about healthy relationship, right? So yeah. So basically when, that's what we are talking here, isn't it? Self-awareness, just taking in, taking charge and go out there and help people so that other people can take charge of themselves as well, because that's how we are helping others, right? 

Speaker 0
Yes. Yes. And I, I like that you said like we're just taking this one step at a time. There is no timeline, but your timeline and it's about those incremental steps because yeah. You know, I think that change, that shift that happens when someone becomes aware and they start taking action, there is, it's almost like a grieving process, right? Yeah. Like if you're truly gonna grieve something, there's a dip before the high and you have to go through that entire process in order to like fully heal from that. And I know that in these situations it is easy to fall into that guilt and shame thinking like, oh my gosh, and I've been there, right? 

Like, I've gone through this myself. Like I, I allowed that. Like, you know, like where was my self worth and how did I let that be become my normal? And like, I just wanna say, and you said this earlier, like, it's okay, it is okay. It is a process. It is a journey. There is always a next step that is closer to healing. And I think that the healing part of it is so important because if you don't go through that. 

Speaker 1
Yeah. 

Speaker 0
It's going to come back around in some form or fashion, whether it be, you know, imposter syndrome around having independence, imposter syndrome about being financially independent or just even making decisions in general. Yeah. 

Speaker 1
Absolutely. I think, I mean, you touched that. I mean, the thing is, what we are saying is the per personal empowerment, isn't it? That's really important. And you take your time, but have a plan, talk to the right people in the sense there are people who are specialized in this, right? I mean, we are making people aware, there are people who are out there who can make a difference to you, how to help you, you know, whether it's an education, whether whatever it is that you want, right? So talk to people. There are, there is help out there. I mean it's, it's really sad when people say there is no help, but there is help. I mean, of course we can do better, right? You know, it's, we can do better in the sense that we want, you know, quick help and quick response, but talk to your local place, local council, that's what we have here. And talk to your family, doctor, gps talk to, I mean, there are pharmacies here, you know, in, in UK who can help you as well. 

There are a lot of people out there who can help you and the local support services, there are lots of numbers. I think we may actually give you some numbers maybe at the end of the show so that you can reach out for people who can actually help you. And the, the most important thing to remember is you're not alone, right? There are a lot of people up there. If you're talking about 2.4 million people in having experience in the last year in uk. I mean, that's a huge number. And this is not just UK problem or US problem. This is the worldwide problem, right? So I mean this, we, you know, it's really important and to, and support, I mean, this is, every one of us have a responsibility, a duty of care for every one of us, right? So this is why, I mean, tackling domestic abuse, it transcend beyond any of your job, any of our jobs. 

So this is about safeguard, safeguarding, this is about life. So we really need to, everybody need to sort of help to support people who are experiencing this. Yeah. 

Speaker 0
Yes. Yes. And I, I just wanna repeat that again. That if you see things like this, if you like speak up, I think you know where I'm at. There's this culture of, like you said, oh, that's a private matter. I don't know what they're arguing about. Okay. That has nothing to do with me. But you said it like, we have a responsibility not just to ourselves, but to others, to our community, to our country, to our world and our wellbeing. And it's a, it's a, it's a mass issue. And even if it doesn't affect you personally Yeah. Your kids see these things not only if it's not in your home, it's at school, it's at the gas station, it's somewhere else. Now it's becoming more normal, you know, and it's a ripple effect. Yeah. And so it, it really, it starts with each one of us individually being aware, which I think we have done a great job of today, of what it is that we need to look for resources we can have in our back pocket ways to approach people coming from a place of empathy and non-judgment and, and also knowing that like, you know, don't get frustrated when somebody doesn't listen to you the first time. 

It's not that anything is wrong with them, it's that you have to respect the situation and it's hard to respect something when you don't understand it. So I am really grateful that like you have taken the time to explain all of this and, and break all of this down. And I just really know that, you know, this episode is gonna have impact. And, and that's exactly what we were both going for. 

Speaker 1
Yeah. Oh, thank you. Thank you Chelsea. I mean absolutely. There's non-judgmental, we need to be sensitive, safe, asking patients, right? Patients. That's the, that's the main thing that a listener could do. Yes. I think absolutely. We need to break the deafening silence of abuse a hundred percent. We definitely have to do that. Defy the unacceptable. And we need to support our survivors and go and seek help and provide support. That's what we need to do. Chelsea? 

Speaker 0
Yes. Yes, you're absolutely right. And we will have links in the show notes of this episode to a few different resources. So if any of this resonates with you in any way, please check those out. There is always help out there more than we realize and it's worth it. Speak up, take action. Let's make this difference. Yeah.