#26 - Am I the Asshole

Is money controlling your relationships? 

In this episode, we tackle two real-life scenarios that expose the hidden power of finances. Chelsea unpacks a story of a young man caught in a web of financial dependence and toxic family behavior, exploring how to break free and set crucial boundaries. Then, she delves into the common dilemma of lending money to family, examining the guilt, the risks, and the importance of clear communication. 

Key Highlights:

1. Spot Financial Toxicity: Recognize manipulation.
2. Build Financial Boundaries: Set firm limits.
3. Lending Risks: Understand the pitfalls.
4. Communicate Clearly: Transform relationships.
5. Reclaim Your Power: Achieve independence.

Learn how to protect your financial independence while maintaining healthy relationships. If you’re struggling with financial boundaries in your relationships, this episode is a must-listen.

Always and Never About Money Episode Links:
Video Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@MoneyMasteryWithChelsea
Socials: https://linktr.ee/the_money_whisper
Money Mastery Website: www.moneymastery.work
Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/AlwaysandNeverMoney/

Transcript

  Welcome to Always and Never About the Money. Are you ready to embark on a journey that will forever change the way you perceive money? Well, get ready because we're about to dive deep into the fascinating world of finances and human behavior.  I'm your host, Chelsea Williams and Money Whisperer. I'm here to help you realize what your money story is telling you and how you can change it.

But hold on tight, because this is not the dull black and white talk about money. We're going to splash all the color into this typical nap inducing conversation.  On Always and Never About the Money, we're going to explore the intricate relationship between money and our daily lives. From the impact history has left on us and how we still manage it, how your habits shape your money, and what beliefs are driving your habits, choices, and relationships to the deeper values and emotions we've come to attach to it.

We're going to unravel it all through insightful conversation and personal anecdotes. We'll bring you the expert insights, real life stories, and meaningful, thought provoking ideas that will inspire you, educate you, and initiate some serious perspective change when it comes to your money. Remember, money is just a tool.

Together, we'll untangle the web of emotions, beliefs, and values we've come to attach to it, and find a new perspective on how it can enhance our lives. So whether you're looking for motivation, practical advice, or a good laugh, Always and never about the money's got you covered. Thank you for joining us in this transformative journey.

Get ready to challenge your beliefs and embark on a financial exploration like no other. Without further ado, let's kick off the episode of Always and Never About the Money.  More or less,  this writer is the girlfriend of  a man who has a family that is admittedly alcoholics and  kind of using money to get what they want  out of their son.

And so I kind of see this as  two, two different things. There's a lot of toxicity happening in the family. And the word that I would use  Is financial control,  which I think happens a lot, especially for someone who's  like fresh out of college and depending  on someone else to help get them to a place where they can establish their own financial dependents.

And I would imagine that happens a lot because  a lot of people still have faith in college. And they have really good intentions, sending their kids to college.  And so they kind of use money as leverage to make sure that they're, you know, and again, they have good intention and it's like, I want you to finish college and I'm going to help pay for it, but you have to finish college.

You have to do these things. And in this scenario, so the story goes into the fact that her boyfriend's parents.  Prioritize family first and put out this image on social media that they're this like happy family that takes trips all of the time But then she's talking specifically about a trip where they went to a cabin and how in private these alcoholic parents continue to fight and argue  and battle each other behind the scenes  and So I think that like the there's a moral struggle in this story Outside of the money. 

That's like, I don't want to be a part of this toxicity.  Like this is a toxic situation. It's not how I want to live my life. But to a certain extent, her boyfriend feels like he has to entertain it, not only because it's family,  but also because they're helping him financially. And she goes on to explain that, like, we can't support ourselves financially without them. 

And so it's almost like. At what point when you need the financial support from people that you don't morally agree with, how do you set boundaries in that situation?  And that's a tough one. And I think this is where relationships show up in money, right? Right. Because clearly this sounds like.  She didn't speak to any physical abuse, but at least a verbally abusive  environment. 

And so that abuse word comes through in the question, could this be considered financial abuse? And if I, if I, if the story wasn't here about all of the drinking and fighting and guilt tripping,  I would call that more of. financial control  and maybe even manipulation, which I suppose you could trans translate into the word abuse.

So part of the story is also that,  you know, his parents guilted him into coming to this trip. He didn't have money for paid for him, decided to extend the trip. He couldn't because he's a college student. He has his own responsibilities. And he told them. I wanted, you know, I still need to leave on the day that we originally said that I needed to leave.

And so his only option was to get a bus ticket  and his parents offered to pay for the bus ticket. He asked and they said yes, but then they came back and said, Oh, we spent the money to extend our trip. So we can't.  Pay for your bus ticket back. It's almost like yes, I will help you get back on time. Oh, just kidding  We don't have the money because we spent it to extend the trip, right? 

And so that's like I would call that financial manipulation and financial control and that again is a really hard Situation and it's also hard to distinguish This is the toxicity that's going on with these relationships, these inter family relationships. And, and money is, it sounds like, is tethering him to a toxic situation because he needs it to survive, to get through college, to even create the foundation for himself.

Right. So yeah, establishing, establishing boundaries in a situation like this is a real self challenge. Mm hmm. Like imagine being 23 years old.  And having to assert your boundaries to your toxic parents and also at the same time being scared that you're going to lose your financial lifeline to like life,  you know, and how do you have that conversation with your parents? 

about,  you know, look, I love you guys, but you guys are a hot toxic mess. And I don't want to be involved. Cause part of what the writer says too, is that he's decided to  discontinue these trips with his parents altogether. Like he's had enough  and he doesn't want to go on these trips anymore. That's a, that's a challenge for a 23 year old to be able to identify the boundaries, separate the money from the relationship.

And come to the table to have that conversation.  So let's shift it a little bit and talk about financial control  when somebody has financial control over you.  So I'm going to detach it from the college student, because I feel like that's a subset of people that has a different response than say somebody who's a full blown adult and still depending on other people for  financial  stability  or being able to live life.

But when anybody relies on anybody else financially, I think one of the really important things to keep in mind and be aware of is don't let yourself become enabled and depend on it. Let it be circumstantial and have a plan to disconnect from that financial reliance.  From anybody, because that can absolutely happen when somebody is so used to other people helping them financially, they stop aspiring to be financially independent.

And whether you're a college student, whether you're adult working a minimum wage job, whether you're an adult working a fine job and you're just used to it.  There's always a way I can find a story anywhere. That like in this case, a college student who maybe their parents didn't even have the means to help them through college, but they made it happen through grants, through loans, through hustling. 

Um,  and I think that's a really big one. If you want true financial independence, you have to recognize  that line where you enable yourself. Where you get comfortable  because you have people helping you and filling in the gap, the financial gap. And so you stop looking for ways to fill that gap yourself.

So also accepting the reality that when you accept financial assistance from people, you, to some extent are giving them power.  And in this story, that's exactly what's happening. The parents are exerting their power over their son using money.  Yeah, if you look at the parents financial story just within this in and of itself, they don't have money for a bus ticket, but they have money for cases of beer and weekend trips and  extending the vacation.

The math doesn't math that these parents could extend a trip. Support their drinking habit and not help be able to afford to help their son get back on a bus  with a bus ticket. So all of this to me just screams control, financial control. And here's what I think.  The son and the girlfriend need to hear,  you have to understand what you are compromising when you accept financial support and rely on financial support from other people.

And that's not to say that there's a season for everything. Cause you know, these kids are young, they're still in college. They, they, you know, they do need help, but I think taking back their power means.  Figuring out how they can detach themselves because you're not just sacrificing. You're not risking losing the financial support.

You're risking learning toxic ways to manage and exert control using money. You're risking your own self worth, your own belief systems around. How am I compromising myself to make sure that I have enough money? And you're also limiting yourself from finding other ways to establish your own financial independence.

You know, that's another challenging thing. So now let's look at just the writer who's the girlfriend of the boyfriend. And at the end, she says, I don't know what to do or how to help him. I live with my mom too. So I think moving in there wouldn't work because that's just too many people in a house. So. 

Also understanding the boundary in relationships. And I think she's coming from a great heartfelt place being like, I want to help him and I want to, you know, do these things and I don't know, she doesn't speak to how serious the relationship is, if they plan to get married or anything like that. And I think it's really noble to want to step over and step up and really help him.

But at the same time, boundaries have to be established within a relationship. At what point do you financially extend yourself for someone who is  You don't even know if you're going to start getting married, you know, if you're going to get married or what your future holds, like how far do you extend yourself in these undeveloped relationships to help the other person financially?

Because another thing that she needs to keep in mind is.  What tendencies, even passively, unconsciously, is he taking on from his parents and are those tendencies that she wants to deal with and manage? And he could have, he could see it for everything it is, for all I know, and not want to aspire to be anything like them in any way,  right?

What is he doing? Because she's taking on the responsibility to make it right. Right. So like a question that I would want to dig into that this doesn't speak to is what is he doing to take back his power? What is he doing to fill the financial gap that,  you know, if his parents was to stop giving him money, he would have to figure out how to make that money because it is possible.

People do do it. It sucks and you have to work really hard. Um, and sacrifice a lot of things and it does require to some degree, the hustle, which comes with sacrifices that equate to time,  right?  So I think that's another thing for her to keep in mind.  How is he stepping up to the plate? And is it her job to overextend herself and compensate for if his parents take the financial resources away?

All right. Am I the asshole for not wanting to give my brother more money?  So here's the situation. My brother is in a rough spot financially and he came to me a few months back asking for help. I ended up giving him 2, 400, which was a big deal for me, but he was struggling and I wanted to help him out.

He promised, of course, that he would pay me back and I really believed him at the time, but now fast forward and I haven't seen a single dollar. He's telling me he's still in a rut and surprise asking for more money. And again, he's giving me that same line. I'll pay you back, don't worry.  I know he means it when he says it, but it's becoming clear that I might just never see that money again.

I feel like I'm,  I feel like I'm the family ATM at this point, and honestly, I'm tired. I feel guilty though. I keep thinking, what if this time is different? He's my brother, and I don't want to abandon him when he's struggling. But at the same time, I'm trying to manage my own finances and can't just keep handing out money.

Every time I think about saying no, I feel like a bad sibling. But every time I say yes, it's like I'm settling myself, setting myself up for more disappointment.  Am I the asshole if I just put my foot down and refuse to give him more money? Part of me thinks I'm justified, but I feel the guilt is real.  My short answer to any question like this is no, you are not an asshole for protecting your financial independence. 

My theory on lending money is first of all, if it's going to hurt you and put you in a place that jeopardizes your financial stability to lend money, don't do it because  If lending money or helping somebody financially makes or breaks the relationship,  I think there are other factors going on in that relationship that. 

Need to be addressed outside of the temporary money fix.  So there are three kind of factors that play into this. Cause it's never like a super crystal clear yes or no answer. Right. And the first factor is you have to consider the person that you're lending the money to. What have they exhibited up to this point when it comes to money? 

Is it someone who always asks for money and when the ATM of one person runs dry, they move on to the next person?  Are they putting effort towards doing it on their own?  Right? There's a, there's a saying  that comes from the Bible.  Don't give a man, I think it comes from the Bible. Don't give a man a fish.

Teach a man how to fish.  Are you lending money to somebody who is  Learning how to fish, attempting or willing to learn how to fish and put themselves in a position to where they don't have to ask for it again.  For example, if it's someone who makes, made really good money and had the ability to set aside like an emergency fund but chose not to. 

Are they willing to learn from that and do different? Like, is it somebody who you know has the hustle? They're truly in a bad place, but they have exhibited proof in the past that they're completely motivated and capable to go out and find a new job or hustle their way towards financial independence again, right?

Is there proof in their past? That they're the type of person that's going to go get it and keep their word in paying you back. So that's factor number one. Consider the person that you are lending money to.  And then  you have to consider what if you don't get it back.  And so that's like a personal theory of mine.

I never lend money. And I'm not willing to lend money that I'm not okay with getting back because Especially with the people that ask me for money that I truly value their relationship.  I don't even put myself in a position to expect it back. That's also how I do charitable contributions. So I don't, I don't donate a whole lot to non profits, for example, because I've seen their public 10, uh, 10Ks, their public financial statements, and non for profits are hiding behind profits and it's all going to the CEOs.

They're not doing what they say they're going to do.  So for me, my charitable contribution is giving money to people who I know need it,  and I know are going to appreciate it and use it. And so you have to ask yourself, what happens if you don't get it back? And this is a perfect example. This is her brother, and it sounds like she really genuinely loves him, cares for him, and wants to see him do well.

But  And words are so powerful. So if we pick out some of the words in her story here,  her not getting that money back is cultivating feelings of resentment, cultivating feelings of questioning the integrity of the relationship. And is it worth you risking the relationship should you not get that money back?

And then,  The setting boundaries and this goes hand in hand with it. What if you don't get it back? Like first, you really have to ask yourself that question  and be like, what are the repercussions if I don't get this back  and also  coming to the table before you give them the money and saying, Hey, let's talk about  the expectation of when I'm going to get it back.

What is the payment schedule going to look like? And this, by the way, is not unfair because  If you don't have anybody in your life that has money to lend you, where do you go? You go to a bank. You go to a lending company, a lending website,  anytime you borrow money through not a person, you are expected to start paying it back on a very specific date. 

And you have a set frequency and you're paying interest. So you're paying back more than you borrowed.  And so it's really a plug to have somebody in your life that can lend you money in the first place. So it's not unfair to clarify before you give somebody money the expectation of I, when is it reasonable for me to  I'm going to start paying it back  and going so far as discussing what happens if you don't pay me back. 

So the long and the short of this question is that it's an incredibly tough question. But this is where I appreciate money for how it can stretch us and how it offers up reflection in other areas of life. And for this one in particular,  communication and boundaries.  Do you find it hard to come to the table and communicate with someone like your brother?

Hey I want to lend you this money. I want to help you, but it's going to put me in a bad place financially if you don't pay me back. So can we compromise and agree on when you're going to pay me back? How often you're going to be able to make payments? What's your plan? Um, and what's going to happen if you don't pay me?

So communication shows up a lot in money. And number two is Accountability and boundaries taking accountability for the fact that anytime you are lending money, you are risking not getting it back. And are you willing to own the results of that?  Right? Are you willing to look far enough down the road of possibility?

If my brother doesn't pay me back,  am I going to harbor feelings of resentment? Is it going to taint our relationship? Um,  and do you have the assertiveness where if 2400 is going to put you in a place that you aren't willing to go, do you have the assertiveness to come to the table and say no, no is a complete sentence and you are entitled to know when somebody asks you for money, um, which may also present an opportunity for you to reflect depending on how that person reacts to you saying no, because the truth of the matter is, It is not your obligation to risk your financial stability for anyone.

It's a choice that you can absolutely say yes to, but it is not your responsibility, no matter who the person is.  So these are always tough ones because people that lend other people money truly come from a great place. But we have to think a few steps down the road of possibility  and make a decision that we're going to be okay with. 

So my, my biggest advice for lending money is do not lend money that. You can't be okay with not getting back and look at the other pieces of the relationship of the person that you are lending money to. Who are they? What have they shown in the past as far as the likelihood that they're actually going to pay you back?

You have to consider if you don't get it back. Are you willing to live with the consequences of not getting it back? And for example, is that a relationship you're willing to lose should you not get it back and you harbor feelings of resentment?  And also make sure you're considering your boundaries and communicating them.

This is a, a really great way to challenge your communication skills and your boundaries.  If you liked this episode, be sure to show us some love by subscribing and turning on those notifications. You can find me on Instagram under the Money Wish.  Also where we encourage you to contribute, to join the conversation, ask questions, and share your thoughts so we can create more episodes tailored exactly to what you want to know about money.

I'm your host and your personal money whisperer. Until next time, remember it is always and never about the money.