#35 - Why Your Employees Really Stay (and Leave): The Meaning Equation with Steph Tuss

Ever felt like your work was missing something, even if the pay was good? Or, as a leader, are you struggling to truly inspire and retain your best talent? In this insightful episode, I sit down with the brilliant Steph Tuss, a master of organizational dynamics, to explore the surprising truth about what truly drives people in the workplace. We go beyond the typical discussions of salaries and benefits to uncover the profound impact of purpose, meaning, and a clear vision.

Key Highlights:

1. Meaning Drives Loyalty: Discover why purpose keeps employees longer, even over higher pay.
2. Vision Beyond Profit: Learn why an inspiring company vision (not just financial goals) boosts engagement.
3. The Cost of No Purpose: Understand the hidden expenses of a disengaged workforce.
4. Empower Their "Why": Learn to connect individual roles to the company's bigger impact.
5. From Tasks to Transformation: Shift from task management to truly inspiring your team.

If you're ready to transform your workplace culture, understand employee motivation on a deeper level, or find more fulfillment in your own role, this conversation is a must-listen.

Steph Tuss is a seasoned strategic advisor with over 15 years of experience empowering business founders to evolve and scale. As the former CEO of Life Is Now, Inc., she guided hundreds of businesses in leadership, operations, and team development. Steph specializes in strategic growth planning, leadership realignment, and resolving complex organizational challenges. Known for simplifying complex issues, she now works one-on-one with founders, helping them make confident, aligned decisions. When not advising, Steph travels the U.S. in her Airstream, finding inspiration in nature, music, and food.

Steph Tuss's Links:

Her website

Facebook

Instagram

LinkedIn

Links:

Adam Grant 

Always and Never About Money Episode Links:
Video Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@MoneyMasteryWithChelsea
Socials: https://linktr.ee/the_money_whisper
Money Mastery Website: www.moneymastery.work
Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/AlwaysandNeverMoney/

Transcript

Podcast Transcript –
Steph Tuss Guesting
0:27
Here we go.

0:28
Hello again.
0:29
Hello.
0:32
Thank you.

0:35
Yeah.
0:37
So I have to tell you how my day is starting.

0:40
Oh, I go to an aesthetician.
0:44
Like, inconsistently.
0:46
Not very consistent at all.

0:48
And I've always struggled with rosacea.
0:52
And so I've been, I've gone to her like 5 times.

0:56
And this last time I went because she kept telling me stay away from the prescriptions.

1:00
Let me do this naturally.
1:01
I'm like, OK, but I got tired.

1:04
I got tired of feeling like I was in junior high again and a lady I met noticed that I had rosacea.
 

1:10
She's like, Oh my gosh, I have it too.

1:12
I have this leftover medication.
1:13
I've got enough.
1:14
I can give it to you and you can then go see a dermatologist and get it for yourself.

1:21
So I got the medication and it worked.
1:22
And so I'm sitting there with her.
1:24
I'm like, I have to tell you something and you're going to be so disappointed in me.

1:27
And I'm so sorry, but I'm not sorry because you worked.

1:31
And so she looked up the cream and why it worked and she started doing some research and she was like, what causes these little pamphlets, right?
1:42
Like it's rosacea with pamphlets.

1:44
Little micro pimples are bugs that live on our face and create bacteria.
1:52
So this morning she sends me like this informational article on these bugs and how they live on our face 24/7 and they reproduce in hours sleep and they don't poop so they just explode and die on your face.
2:05
Oh my God.
 
2:09
And everybody has them.

2:10
It's not just people that have rosacea and pamphlets.

2:15
So my face is crawling right now.
2:19
Oh so fun fact.

2:22
If you didn't know, there are bugs living on your face, eating your skin, laying eggs, not pooping and exploding and dying.

2:28
Right on.
2:29
I feel so much better knowing that now.
2:31
Thank you for bringing me into your brain.

2:34
I appreciate that.
2:36
I was like, I could have gone my entire life and not seen them.
2:41
I mean, it's bad enough, like with mites in your bed and sheets and like, yeah, yeah.
2:50
And I guess it's all good, the circle of life and everything.

2:53
But.
2:53
But there are some things that I just.
2:55
I don't think I ever wanted to know.
 
2:57
No, no.

3:00
Oh, my goodness.
3:02
So yes, that is that is my day today.
3:04
How are you?

3:05
How have you been?
3:06
I'm good.

3:07
I've been great.
3:08
Good.
3:09
Yeah, wonderful.

3:11
I'm really excited to take to get into this episode and I appreciate you filling out that form.

3:17
Even though we met.
3:19
Did I fill out a form?
3:21
Are you sure I found out a form?

3:23
Maybe it was from our conversation 'cause I think I had told you like ignore the form 'cause we had a couple meetings before we recorded.

3:31
OK, OK.
3:33
So, yeah, I think the the main points that I have
 
loosely are around organizational psychology, what it is, what it can do.

3:45
You had a really good story in there about I believe it was a client, Cameron Harold.
3:50
Oh, no, he's not a client.
3:52
He's he was the COO of 1800 got junk and it he he's like he's who I he wrote a great book about vision, about vivid vision.
4:03
Yes.

4:04
OK, cool.
4:05
So the vision ties into like the organizational psychology.
4:12
Sorry, as I'm still focused on bugs eating my face.

4:15
So I totally derailed your day, Steph.

4:18
I'm so sorry.
4:20
I don't me too me too.

4:21
So I have to share the derailment.
4:23
Yeah, I've got lots of resources if you want me to share.
4:25
Like, you know, the Fearless Organization is a really great resource on organizational psychology.
4:31
And also for real.
 

4:37
I know, I know we need, we just need a moment to eliminate this from our thoughts and psychological safety so I can talk about, I can talk about all of it all day long.

4:47
Yes.
4:48
OK, good.

4:52
So I want to get a little bit of your story, your background, paint the picture of why you do, how you do it, and then go into like the organizational strategy, all of those questions.
5:03
We get into the vision and the strategy and then leadership and mindset, operation and team dynamics, personal insight and money connection, those types of things.
5:15
And throughout the conversation, keep in mind too, that, and I do this with all of my episodes, I tie money in business to personal, that we have listeners that don't necessarily own or lead a business, but they still play a role even if they own or lead A-Team or they own and lead and manage their home, which makes you know your area of expertise useful to everybody.

5:42
Sounds good.
5:43
OK, cool.

5:44
So we'll just have a natural conversation around those focus topics we're already recording.

5:49
I do this very, I guess not very different. 5:52
 
I've heard of some other people doing it this way too.

5:55
But once you and I go through and get done with the episode, my team edits it and I listen to the edited version so I can come up with a really powerful recorded intro and exit.

6:07
So you won't see me reading from a script introducing you or anything.

6:11
I'll do that afterwards.
6:13
Sounds good.

6:14
OK, wonderful.
6:16
So let's dive in.
6:19
And I want to start by giving our listeners an idea around who you are and what you do and how that story played out for you.
6:30
So my name is Steph Toss, last name Toss.

6:35
I started out very humble beginnings.
6:38
My degree was actually in education, both in music and elementary education.
6:42
I have a love for teaching and facilitating, which hasn't changed in the last 30 years.
6:49
And you know, I taught, I taught elementary school for a good ten years.

6:54
Eight years in, I gave birth to a sick child and that sent me down a whole rabbit hole, I guess.
 

7:02
Good rabbit hole of self discovery and research.
7:06
Doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong with her.

7:08
And through my research, I mean, I talked to every alternative therapist clinician out there trying to find some answers, 'cause she was really, really sick.

7:18
And I was the first time mom and I was only 25.

7:22
So I was a young mom at that, uncovered that it was food sensitivity.

7:27
So I was nursing her and she was, she was really, really sick because of what I was eating, which seemed like such a simple explanation.

7:33
But again, this was 25 years ago now she's almost 25, 25 years ago where it, it wasn't a thing, like natural health wasn't a thing.

7:42
And I thought, well, you know, I'm a teacher.
7:46
And right now I'm teaching, you know, U.S.
7:48
history to 5th graders.

7:50
And there's probably a lot of other moms and dads out there that are worried like crazy for their children because they're really sick and they don't have this information.
7:57
So while I was teaching, I went back to school, got my master's degree in holistic nutrition.
 
8:01
And then in 2007, I left teaching and started my own business.
8:07
And I was the very first entrepreneur in my family.

8:10
I had no idea what I was doing.
8:12
And my only primary goal was to replace my teacher income, which at that time was like
$3000 a month.
8:18
So embarrassing to say, but we, we weren't paid very well.
8:22
And I, I, I just, you know, you ever heard the phrase unconscious competent where I didn't know, I didn't know all the negative things or all the scary things about starting a business.

8:31
So I had no reason to believe that I couldn't.
8:33
I was focused on, you know, building a a new business and I would walk into corporations and do free lunch and learns.
8:41
Like I just would do whatever it took to to bring in the clients that I needed.
8:45
And I grew actually really quickly.

8:47
So within three years I had a multi 6 figure practice in a very small town in southern Wisconsin.

8:53
And I also had, I was a nutritionist for university baseball team and I was also a nutritionist for several female pro NBA and soccer players.
 
9:04
My name just got passed around.

9:06
It was crazy.
9:08
But in the meantime, I fell in love with business and I realized that the same reason for the same reasons people sabotage their health, for the same reasons they sabotage their business.

9:18
So I actually sold that business when I was, I think I was just past 30.
9:23
I sold that business and I went to work for a business consultant company.
9:27
I went to work for Life is Now and I started at the very bottom and I worked my way all the way to being CEO for 6 1/2 years.
9:36
And then in 20/20/23 I left that role and just kind of semi retired.
9:41
I guess My kids are out of the house, I'm an empty nester and I wanted some more freedom and flexibility.
9:48
And so I just, I'm just doing private consulting right now with small business owners.
9:52
So I'm kind of a back pocket CEOCOO and an advisor to small businesses founders.

10:01
Oh I can relate to your story on so many different levels.

10:06
Especially the having something even with your child be often nobody being able to give you answers.
 

10:13
I had a similar experience with my son and the school had no answers or resources.
10:18
I mean, it took me begging and making phone calls and all of these things to find information that, in my opinion, should have been so readily available.

10:25
Yeah.

10:26
And I also love how you even mentioned I I went into this business thing not really knowing what this business thing was.

10:33
But one thing led to another, and you really just went with it.

10:39
And yeah, I just kept saying, yes.
10:42
I mean, I'm the daughter of an auto worker.

10:44
I mean, he, my dad worked at GM for 30 years and then retired.

10:49
My mom was the credit manager at a hospital.
10:51
She was the person picking up the phone and calling people and asking them to pay their bills.
10:55
Like, you know, before that my grandparents were dairy farmers.
10:59
So there was, there were no entrepreneurs.

11:01
I had no idea how to build a business. 11:03
 
And at that time, there wasn't a whole, a lot online.

11:06
So I would take myself to the library and I would sit on the floor in the library and I would read every business book I could get my hand on just to like I, I was, I was studying sales.

11:17
I was studying, you know, my big why I, I was just like a sponge for how do I do this and how do I do this the right way?

11:26
You were hungry.
11:27
Where do you think that came from?
11:28
Where do you think that drive and that like, look, if nobody's going to hand it to me, I'm going to go take it and get it for myself.
11:34
I think part of it's my childhood.

11:36
I grew up in a really chaotic, you know, not great childhood where I had to be really resourceful and I had to depend on myself.

11:44
And I'm a huge control freak.
11:45
So whenever I feel out of control, I kind of go into like over mode, like you're not going to tell me that this isn't going to happen, right?
11:52
So that's how it has served me.
11:54
It is it has been not so great.

11:56
And at times 2.
11:57
And I'm also a Capricorn.
 

11:59
So like there's pieces of that in there too.

12:04
Like I like to be in charge.
12:08
It was always hard for me being a teacher because there was always a gross inefficiency of time that would make me crazy.
12:14
And I really love teaching.
12:16
I love the act of teaching.

12:18
I love seeing light bulb moments go off in in kids minds, but I didn't like all the bureaucratic red tape, the testing that meant nothing.

12:28
Like the I just wasn't aligned with the actual job of being a teacher.
12:32
And I, I mean, look, my motto was except the things you can't change and change the things you can.

12:38
So even in my short teaching career, I was the president of the teachers association.
12:42
So I was bargaining on behalf of our union, trying to make, trying to get positive change.
12:47
And then finally, it was like, I need to go a different direction.
12:52
And what I can appreciate about that and what I think it's helpful for everybody to hear is like, you don't have to know the next couple of steps in this journey and you have no idea how it's going to unfold.
13:02
 
Like you started in an education teaching setting.

13:07
You had this thing happen, you researched it, you used teaching and what you were passionate about to create a business, which led you to then realizing I actually love business.
13:19
And the same things that I'm seeing in this world over here with nutrition are the same exact fundamental things that are happening over here.
13:28
Exactly.

13:31
Yeah.
13:31
And I and I love that.
13:32
I love that when you can trust that all you need is the next step and where you're at now might not be your final destination.
13:39
And both of those things are OK.

13:43
I think that's just a really powerful place to be.
13:48
It says trust only tattoo and it says trust as a reminder that it's never failed me.
13:53
Like it's never failed me.

13:56
I love it.
13:57
And you know, I think that that's some some of what people struggle with.
14:01
And I would imagine we're going to get into
 
that conversation as we go through kind of more around what you do and how you do it.

14:08
But let's start with your phrase organizational psychology.
14:13
What is that?
14:15
So to be fair, organizational psychology is not my phrase.

14:19
I'm passionate about organizational psychology.

14:22
I learned about organizational psychology from a man named Adam Grant, and if anyone is interested in it, you must follow him.

14:30
The man is absolutely brilliant and his technique is a great podcast too.
14:34
By the way.
14:35
His take is that an organization becomes a living being in and of itself and that living being which is the organization has a psychology.

14:45
And that could be a really positive psychology or that could be a not so positive psychology or it could just be this blah psychology.
14:52
But the success of the business is directly tied to how the how the individuals all think independently that lead to how the organization thinks as a whole.

15:03
That makes sense.
15:06
Oh, my gosh.
 

15:06
OK, So what you just said is that an organization pretty much takes on its own character, its own energy.
15:13
And that energy is shared by everyone.

15:17
And I know I, I have a friend who started a new position with a new company and she came in so excited and so passionate.

15:28
And she's one of those people that's really good with systematic efficiencies and processes like her.

15:34
That's how her mind works, the strength of hers.

15:37
And so she came into this new job and she started seeing things like, Hey, we can slash this time and do this and reduce errors.

15:44
And she had all of these ideas, and as she brought them to management, they were kind of brushed off to the side or flat out told no, this is how we've always done it.

15:54
And eventually what I saw happen over time was that she stopped.

16:00
She absorbed that same energy, that same mindset as the people that she was working with.

16:10
Happens all the time and so it's all the time.
16:14
And conversely, if you have someone who's had a bad experience in a work environment before and they enter an organization with a positive psychology, that person can grow from being AB or C player because they're
 
operating out of self security and and find the psychological safety to be able to take risks and speak their mind and they grow into an A player.

16:36
So it has its effect either way, depending on the the the whole met of the psychology of the organization.
16:44
And that really starts with the founder in the leadership.

16:47
Yeah, let's talk about that.
16:49
Let's talk about how you build something that encourages people to grow, that has a positive effect on the people in the organization as the leader.

17:01
So I know a whole bunch of studies have just come out in the last couple of years, 'cause there's been a lot of changes in the workforce, in the work environment since COVID, right?
17:09
I mean, it overhauled everything.

17:11
It brought in remote and hybrid work.
17:13
Like there has been so many changes so rapidly in the last five years.
17:17
And I can't even believe it's been five years, which is crazy saying that, right?

17:20
But you know, it used to be that the person who is applying for the job has to sell themselves to the employer.

17:32
And now it's reversed. 17:33
 
It's that the employer has to sell themselves to the potential candidate because candidates are looking for purpose.

17:41
They're looking for a why there is a sense, especially in the, in the 20 somethings that life is short and, and, or limited, which is why they're more apt to spend money on experiences than they are to put money aside in their, in their four O 1K and in savings.
17:57
And so they're looking for meaning.
17:58
And you'll, you'll hear that all the time.

18:01
Younger people are looking for meaning and not that, you know, people in their 30s and 40s aren't.

18:05
It's just they were raised in a different era where it was, you need to make money to take care of your family.

18:11
Like security was the most important thing.
18:13
It's not the same anymore.
18:15
So I think the most important thing any kind of in any size organization needs to have and be really clear about is what their vision is.
18:24
Because if your employees can't identify with how they can help achieve that vision and why that vision is important, they won't find meaning in their role and they're more apt to leave.
18:35
And again, studies have been done, studies have shown that people will stay and make less money if there's more meaning.
18:43
 
And if there's not, meaning they'll leave regardless of the money eventually, right?

18:48
Which becomes very expensive for the employer.
18:51
So I think the most impactful thing that an organization can do is make sure they have a really clear vision.
18:58
And when I say vision, this is not about mission statement.
19:02
This is not about a financial goal.

19:04
News flash, your team doesn't give two ***** excuse my language, about how much money you want to make.

19:11
They want to know how, who, how who they're being is going to make a difference in someone's life, unless you're fine just hiring AB or C player that checks tasks off the list, which you shouldn't be, quite honestly.
19:26
So I think everything starts with vision.
19:29
And I think one of the primary responsibilities of the leader of any organization, whether you're the CEO or you're the founder and you have ACEO, is to make sure you're consistently and frequently and consistently sharing that vision.

19:45
And the vision is something that people can listen to and they can see and feel.
19:53
So it's full of visual, like visual imagery.
19:57
It's full of emotional terms, it's full of words.
 

20:00
It's got a real clear idea about what's going on in every area of the business.
20:05
And a great book on this is Cameron Harold's Vivid Vision.

20:08
He actually takes you through how to how to create the vision, but then the idea is that you've got to share it.

20:15
And the interesting fact about this is, and I've done this with, with so many business owners where I've walked them through how to create their, their vision for both their business and their life in this way, is that they get very nervous to share it because it's vulnerable.
20:29
It's a piece of them, right?
20:31
It's like what they see and feel, what they want to see and feel in the future.

20:36
And that feels very vulnerable.

20:38
But if you don't share it, there is a complete disconnect between you and the team, which then negatively impacts the organizational psychology of your business.
20:51
Yeah.
20:52
And going back to you, we were talking about generally, generationally speaking, because I see this too, business owners that are accustomed to, I call it iron fist leadership, right?
21:05
And transitioning into this new way of thinking and doing things requires a perspective shift.
 

21:15
And you know, hopefully for the business owners that are listening and people that don't own businesses, we're going to get to you in a couple questions too.

21:22
Don't worry.
21:23
But for people listening to this that own a business and they're like they're thinking to themselves, I need to re structure my organizational psychology.
21:33
I've been doing this for so many years.

21:36
My team members have been with me for so many years.

21:38
I need to create a massive change and I'm scared and I don't know how to do that.
21:44
What would you say to them?
21:47
So hierarchical leadership is dead.

21:52
Like there's just no easy way to say it.
21:54
And that's what your friend experienced was hierarchical leadership, right?
21:58
It's, it's dead.

22:00
The key thing that most leaders need to understand is that buy in is key and buy in can only be created with discussion.

22:09
So if you look at organizations like Netflix, if you look at organizations like Google who have in the past been able to pivot really,
 
really quickly, they pivot because they lack hierarchical organization.

22:23
Like there is no hierarchical.
22:24
That's such a hard word to say about it.

22:27
They had three times really fast leadership.
22:29
You know, when I was CEO, my whole mindset was not a single one of the people that were on my team worked for me.
22:37
I worked for every single one of them.
22:38
So I was constantly checking and asking what can be done to make their life easier?

22:42
What could be done to help them increase efficiency?

22:45
What were issues that they saw that they were having?

22:47
What suggestions did they have to make things better?
22:50
Like I really felt like I was the wind beneath their wings because I knew that if I could set them up for success and I could, I could communicate the vision clearly and effectively.

23:01
And often that there was nothing that we couldn't do.
23:04
And I really think that's what caused us to actually almost double during COVID, which most consulting companies almost went out of business.
 
23:12
But we pivoted within a couple of days, created things with the speed that a lot of companies couldn't create things.
23:19
And it was because our team, everybody on our team is an equal.
23:24
We all take responsibility for the entire company rather than just our little piece.

23:30
And we're all there to support each other.
23:32
And that just creates this amazing synergy within an organization.
23:38
Yes.

23:39
Like, I don't believe in management.
23:40
If you have to manage someone, you have the wrong person in the role.
23:44
Do you like being managed?
23:46
No, no, managers should be performance coaches.

23:51
Managers should be, should be, you know, mentors, not someone looking for ways that that their person's not doing what they're supposed to be doing, looking to get them into trouble.
24:01
Should be the opposite.

24:02
And I also think that KPIs are a little bit dead as well.
 
24:07
You know, traditionally KPIs or key performance indicators are just handed down to people.
24:12
And I have seen better success with, with things like measures of success where the, the person in the role thinks about the five or seven most valuable things that they do for the for the company.

24:25
And then the leadership thinks about 5 or 7 things that they think the person does that's the most value to the company.

24:31
And then a conversation is had.
24:33
And then those measures of success or KPIs are agreed to that creates buy in handing something down without giving anyone a chance to talk about it or have experience with it.

24:44
It it it's it's bad, it just doesn't work.
24:48
Yeah, it's a much more collaborative way of approaching it, which is multi serving, right.
24:55
So first and foremost, I believe that you only know so much as the owner of the business and the best value in your business is your team.

25:03
They know things you don't know.
25:05
They hear things, they notice things that you don't hear and notice.

25:09
And so by opening up that door, like stepping off of the hierarchy, like you said, stepping off and out of the hierarchy and opening up the
 
door to each of your team members as a collaborative opportunity and bringing them in on these things, like how would you measure your position?

25:26
What you do is success.

25:27
How do you define that?
25:29
How do you measure that?

25:31
And it is, it's a complete shift in thinking.
25:34
And I can imagine for the business owner that's been, you know, running a business for eight years, hearing this and realizing I should probably do some things different.

25:43
How scary that can be when these are the beliefs that you have took on based on what you have seen and experienced growing up and through your own career before starting a business.
25:52
So yes, naturally you took what you thought was supposed to be and what was supposed to work and you transposed it into your business.

26:00
And so sitting in this place of what was supposed to work isn't working.
26:06
And it's going to be to my detriment if I don't step into a place of, like you said, humility.
26:12
Yes, it is stepping into a place of humility.

26:15
But just like you were taught to believe these things that are wrong in today's age, being vulnerable also is not wrong.
 

26:24
I know it's superpower.

26:26
Vulnerability is a superpower, yes, yeah.
26:31
And your team can see that.
26:33
So by collaborating with them, they also feel more valued, like their input is important and like you said, helping them to see the bigger picture.

26:46
And so when you help, I'm sure you help a lot of business owners that are in this place, right?
26:53
How do you take them through that perspective shift?

27:00
You know, most of the people that come to me know that something has to change.

27:03
They've got high turnover rate.
27:06
They're feeling totally burnt out.
27:08
They keep being sucked back into the minutiae of the business.

27:12
Those are all kind of symptoms that this is what's kind of going on behind the scenes.

27:16
You know, they've always got fires that they have to be pulled in to to put out.
27:21
They're the, they're the chief problem solver, which if you're the owner of the company, you should never be the chief problem solver.
27:28
 
That's why you hire the right people so that you don't have to solve all the problems.

27:33
And so they're generally like tired.
27:37
And when someone's tired, they're more open to hearing a different message because they've kind of given up the fight a little bit, right?

27:42
They're like, OK, I've been fighting this battle for a while and I feel like I need to take a step back and look at what I might not know that I don't know.

27:52
And so then when I start sharing, you know, stats, when I start sharing my own experience and they get a different viewpoint of it, and then I actually give them the step by step of how the how is the easy part.
28:05
Working through the new mindset is the most difficult part because it feels really terrifying, right?
28:11
Like, well, what if this all goes South?

28:14
And I know, I mean, it's the unknown, right?
28:16
The unknown.
28:16
Stepping into the unknown always brings up fear.

28:19
So the first thing I do is I start with the vision, which is really hard for most business owners is to actually sit down and think about not a financial goal, not a mission statement, but what do you want to see in three years?
28:32
Like if you were to go into, if you were to step
 
into a time machine and zoom three years into the future and you step out of The Time Machine and step into the middle of your business, What do you want to see happening with sales?

28:43
What do you want to see happening with operations?
28:45
What do you want to see happening with marketing?

28:47
What do you want to see happening with what clients are saying about you?

28:51
What programs and services do you want to offer?
28:54
Like most business owners before they get to the point where they're like, I can't do this anymore are generally they only see a couple of days in advance because they're they're in a complete reactionary mode.
29:07
Whereas if I can get them to step out of that and start building toward a vision and we can get that three-year vision nail down, then it becomes more proactive because then you're building toward a vision rather than just putting out fires reactively.

29:22
And then once they actually, once we actually get the vision out of them and they're like, Oh my God, I, I, I'm really surprised by this.

29:28
Like I didn't take time to really think about this is what I wanted to do and how I wanted it to feel and how we want to give back as an organization and how I want my employees to feel and all these things.
29:40
And they, they read that and they see it.
 

29:42
Then the next step is to, is to share it.

29:44
That comes with a conversation.
29:47
And I give the exact questions to ask, like the ideas, you share this with your team and then you get buy in.
29:53
And buy in only comes if you give them an opportunity to communicate about it.
29:57
So you ask them what excites you about this?

30:00
What doesn't excite you about this?
30:03
What do you feel like you need to learn or be better at in order to help us?
30:07
Do you see yourself somewhere in this vision?

30:11
And the crazy thing is, is people in a role that you wouldn't think could see themselves helping in certain aspects of the vision will step forward, right?
30:20
So you might have a salesperson start talking to you about an unrelated field where before they felt siloed.
30:27
There's fly buzzing around.

30:28
I apologize.
30:29
So they felt siloed.
30:31
So this actually breaks down the walls of those silos and allows people to see actually what's
 
in your mind so they know why they're doing what they're doing.

30:39
And then it's baby steps, right?
30:42
Like they take the first step and it feels good and they get positive feedback.
30:45
And then they get excited about it and they take the next step and it feels good and they get positive feedback and they start to see changes.
30:51
And then it makes it easier and easier for for each of the subsequent steps.
30:58
You know, I see that too.

30:59
You mentioned a lot of people that you work with have never actually sat down and truly thought about a comprehensive vision.

31:07
What does that look like here?
31:08
What does it look like there?
31:09
How do you measure that?

31:10
What does that mean?
31:11
Because I see the same thing with people in their money story.
31:14
It's kind of the same narrative.

31:16
In order to get to where you want to be, you have to 1st define where it is that you want to be.
 

31:22
What does that look like?

31:23
And completely outside of the money, The price tag we'll assign later.

31:27
But give me the vision that we're working towards.
31:30
Yeah.
31:30
And from a psychological standpoint, it's very difficult for people to put in towards what they want, for most people to put in towards what they want.

31:38
And I believe that goes back to childhood programming, right.
31:41
You know, how many times, how many times as a child were you told?

31:45
I don't, I don't really care what you want.

31:46
It's not about what you want, Right.
31:48
Stop.

31:49
No wants.
31:49
I mean, I remember my kids, like, I have two girls.
31:53
I remember going into the store and I would literally say to them, no, I wants today, like, no, I once today and they were probably like, I don't know, four and seven or something.

32:05
 
But it was, it really was shut down when you were a child because, I mean, your parents only could do what they could do.

32:10
And so it, it almost feels vulnerable to state this is what I want because it's painful when you don't get it, where you get shut down, but it that doesn't serve you anymore and you're not a child.
32:21
So now it's really time to play and to and there's nothing wrong with fantasizing and it's not written in stone.
32:28
You sitting down and writing a vision of where you see yourself three years from now does not mean that it won't change next year.
32:35
You may hit that vision in 18 months and need to create a new one.
32:39
Or you may come upon information that you didn't have at the time that you were writing your vision that influences the entire thing.
32:46
You'll need to rewrite it.

32:47
But the idea is that you start somewhere.
32:50
And that's especially true with with money.
32:53
And you know, people will say, you know, my goal is my goal is $1,000,000.

32:59
Well, does $1,000,000 support the lifestyle that you want?

33:02
Well, I don't know.
33:03
I'm just assuming it does.
 
33:04
Well, let's get, let's like actually do some research.
33:07
You want a house on 2 coasts?

33:09
What's the cost of that?
33:10
What's the cost of like, let's actually start dreaming about this and fantasizing about it and putting real numbers to it so we know exactly how much you need to make.
33:19
And then all of a sudden it becomes very real, way more real than this.
33:23
Like, well, I have a goal of, I even hear this, I have a goal of seven figures.
33:27
I'm like, what does that even mean?

33:31
Like 7 figures?
33:32
Does that mean you just want to hit
$1,000,000?
33:34
Does that mean $7,000,000?

33:36
Does that mean 8?
33:37
Like that's a huge, that's a huge goal.
33:40
Like let's get precise and accurate about what it is that you want.

33:44
And it's just allowing people to get comfortable with that.
 
33:47
I think is, is the, the missing piece is that it isn't comfortable to state what you want.
33:53
Yeah.

33:53
And we're kind of just spewing out whatever we think is going to cover everything with no research whatsoever.

33:59
Well, we spew out what we think's going to take our worry away.
34:02
Yeah.
34:04
But the truth is, is that no dollar amount's going to take your worry away.

34:08
Your worry comes from something else.
34:10
And there's no dollar amount that's 100% secure.
34:14
So the idea is to, to step outside the fear and stop setting goals from well, I just don't want to worry about money anymore and start setting goals based upon what you really want.

34:24
What, what you want your life to look like.
34:26
What do you want to experience?

34:27
What experiences do you want to give to your family?

34:29
What you know, where do you, where do you want to, what do you want to be doing in 567- 1020 years?
 
34:39
Yeah.

34:39
And then, and I think another thing that the vision gives us is, I mean, it makes it easier.

34:45
It's, it might seem hard like you might be thinking right now.
34:48
I've never thought about this stuff either.
34:50
And it might seem overwhelming to at the thought of sitting down and thinking about what you want your life to look what like and then pinning numbers.

34:57
But what it does for organizations, individuals, if you're working within an organization, all of our conversations so far is relevant.
35:04
Whether you're managing A-Team, whether you're recognizing you're in a toxic organization, whether you're recognizing you have more negotiating power post COVID now that as you mentioned, businesses have to sell to you.

35:16
That is a position that we're in.

35:19
But also thinking about, you had mentioned by the time people come to you, they already have a feeling that something is wrong.

35:31
They're just in enough pain to do something about it.
35:35
And there's, I think it's Jim, Ron, you may have heard this before, how he talks about people only change in Four Seasons.
 
35:42
Do you remember the floor?

35:43
I remember like one or two I do not remember before.

35:47
It's like when it hurts enough that they want to, when they know enough that they feel comfortable or something like that.

35:55
And so point being, the people that you're seeing, and before people can come to this place of doing what we're talking about, even though they know it has to hurt enough for them to come to this place.
36:09
And what I want to talk about and what I want you, who I want you to help speak to with this next kind of question is to the person you're listening and you're like, it's OK, it's bad, but it ain't that bad.
36:23
What can you say to them to encourage them to do something about it before the pain outweighs what they're doing now?

36:37
I mean, I don't know.
36:39
I don't know that there is something, I think that I think that change happens when there's a high enough sense of urgency to change and you're open enough to be able to hear the information.

36:53
I mean, I would love to, you know, state a magical phrase that everyone's just like, yes, let's all do it right now.

37:00
But I think that I think that a lot of people are skeptical for good reason.
37:04
 
Like I don't think there's anything wrong with being skeptical, but I also think that if you're in the beginning stages of high turnover rate, if you're beginning to resent your team to the key indicator that you've got, you've got some organizational issues.
37:19
If you feel like anger at your team for asking questions, angry at your team because they're not doing things correctly, angry at their team because they're not hitting deadlines or they're not reading your mind or, or just doing what you want them to do, then there is a much easier way to fix the problem than you think.
37:38
And it doesn't take firing your entire team.
37:43
It just takes your willingness to be a little bit more open and come at it from a different direction.
37:49
I appreciate that.

37:50
That's so raw and so real.
37:52
And I, I think I'm on the same page as you because I see the same thing.
37:56
And I always ask myself, how do you get somebody to realize it before that pain is so deep that they finally reach out?
38:02
And I mean, it kind of goes back to the beginning of your story and just trusting the journey, just like your tattoo, like you just got to trust that when the time is right, it'll happen and they'll have resources when they choose to reach out.

38:17
Exactly.
 

38:18
Look, there is, there is a gift in every disaster.

38:22
Like disaster is required for growth.
38:25
Like there's always a breakdown before a breakthrough.
38:27
And there's a reason that those things live on and on and on.
38:30
They're 100% true.

38:32
So sometimes you do have to, to experience the breakdown before you, before you change directions.

38:39
You do.
38:40
And, and that leads into, I think a lot of the fear about making this decision to pivot in your life and in your leadership is because of the humility and the unknown, but also what comes next.

38:53
Because I would imagine that naturally during this process, for example, a business owner realizes that they need to change and change their style of leadership and how they are showing up in the company.
39:06
So they make that decision.

39:09
But when they define their vision and the people that it's going to take and they try to get by and from the team, they're probably also scared of that moment when they recognize one of their team members is not a good fit.
39:22
 
And now we're faced with people problems, which are some of the hardest to navigate.

39:27
Yes.
39:27
But here's what makes it easy When you share your vision, when you start talking about your vision and the rest of the team has buy in, your people who don't buy in will self select out.

39:39
So you don't even have to let them go.
39:41
They will start looking for employment elsewhere and they will self select out.

39:45
Whereas if you don't share your vision and you've got this underperforming team player under, yes, underperforming team member, they will stay for forever until you release them because there's no reason for them to go anywhere else.
40:01
That's another benefit of making sure that you're communicating your vision and getting by in is that the people who don't buy in will feel so uncomfortable that they will self select out.
40:10
And I've seen it happen time and time again.

40:14
Well, that definitely makes it a little easier because I know, I think, you know, running a business, I have 16 team members and the leadership part is the most complex part.

40:29
But I do find because I we were positioned before COVID hit, I started my company, my first company in 2017 and my goal was to be 100% remote.
40:40
So when COVID hit and everybody had to
 
figure out how to live online, we were like, hey, welcome to the party.

40:46
It's awesome over here, let's do it.
40:50
But I had started my company with the core values, the mission, the vision, and it was a complete reflection of who I am as a person.
41:00
And to work to make sure that 16 people all feel valued, all know their value and role and understand the bigger picture and mission of what we're trying to accomplish and why their piece is so crucial to what it is that we're doing as a whole is a challenge.

41:21
It, it, it the people can be the biggest challenge in business.

41:26
I would think people generally are the biggest challenge in business, right?
41:30
Like, let's be honest, nothing prepares you for being a small business owner and hiring A- Team.

41:34
There is no advanced training.
41:36
Like you don't learn it until you're actually doing it and you're in it.
41:41
And most business owners are high achievers, which means they didn't really work well with the group when they were in school.
41:48
They would work with a group and they would take on the whole thing and finish it.

41:51
And everybody else was glad that they were in your group because you'd finish the whole thing.
 

41:54
So there's also a piece of a piece of that as well, like the delegation piece.
41:59
A lot of business owners are real hesitant to delegate because no one can do it as good as them.
42:04
It brings up, look, the fastest way to grow, right?

42:08
The fastest way of personal growth is to be a small business owner because you're face to face with your own stuff every single day.

42:14
And most people have a deep, deep fear of being disliked.

42:19
Like the need to be liked is really, really strong in most human beings because belonging is part of who we are.

42:25
We want to belong and to not be liked threatens belonging.

42:29
But you got to drop that.
42:32
You got to, you got to drop that need if you're going to lead A-Team, because sometimes you might have to have a hard conversation.
42:38
Sometimes you might need to deal with someone and they might not like it or they might not like you.
42:42
So it just brings up all your stuff.

42:45
And it's a, it's a work in progress. 42:48
 
And I find that the more vulnerable you are with your team, the more easily you can admit when you've made a mistake.

42:54
The more they'll admit when they've made a mistake, the more willing they'll be to come to you if they've got an issue, the more willing they'll say, hey, I've got this other offer on the table, but I wanted to give you first right of refusal.
43:06
Like I, I just think vulnerability, and I said it before, I think vulnerability is a, is a superpower.
43:12
But you're right.
43:14
People in a small business are, I would, I would, you know, stake my claim that it's the most difficult thing about owning a business.
43:22
Yeah.

43:23
And, and, and not so much because the people are difficult, but just making sure that you're showing up as the leader that you need to be in all the positive ways.

43:30
I don't want that to have like a negative connotation.

43:33
Well, when you're starting out too, you're, you're stepping into like 3 or 4 different roles, sometimes minute to minute.

43:40
So one minute you're the leader, one minute you're the salesperson, one minute you're the you, you're in fulfillment and delivering whatever it is that you're delivering.
43:47
The next minute you're in marketing.
 
43:48
And so you're, you're in too many things to be able to focus specifically on how am I showing up as a leader right now?
43:56
It's very difficult.

43:58
Like there's, there's nothing about me is saying that this is, this is a super easy thing to do.

44:08
And so we have, we've talked about creating the vision, communicating the vision to your team.

44:15
And what you just said, it's, it's, it's an ongoing process.
44:19
It's an ongoing evolution.
44:21
There's never this like point that you reach where you're like, sweet, we're set, we're good, we can coast.
44:27
So how, how would you tell someone, you know, once you've done these couple of steps to start with, how do you keep up with a system like that, especially for a growing business?

44:37
You calendar it.
44:42
How's that for a simple answer?

44:45
I love it.
44:46
So Monday morning meeting, you all get on and talk about the vision, read different paragraphs each week, talk about hair.
 
44:54
We're making progress.

44:55
How's everyone feeling about this?
44:57
Right.
44:57
So you calendar it so it doesn't get missed glossed over.

45:03
And it will if it's not calendared.
45:06
I mean, ideally I should be able to walk into any organization and ask any kind of team member to talk to me about the vision.
45:13
And they should be able to have a conversation with me about it.
45:16
If, if, if I'm on the, on a zoom with the business owner and I say, hey, if I go into your organization and I ask any one of your team members about the vision, will they be able to talk to me about it?

45:26
Most of them are like, and I'm like, so I can know that.

45:33
So it needs to be calendared.
45:34
It needs to be part of something that happens consistently, which means every week.
45:41
Generally what I, what I recommend is a, as a meeting cadence is you have your, your vision meeting every Monday to realign everybody and to remind them why we're doing what we're doing and also celebrate like, hey, are we getting closer or do we need to shift?
 

45:54
And then on Friday, you have a quick weekly wins where you all get together and you share both personal and business wins, which builds camaraderie and ties back to the vision of the culture you want to create in the organization.

46:05
So it's not like you've got to spend hours and hours on this, but it doesn't.
46:09
It can't get swept under the rug.
46:11
It can't get forgotten.

46:13
Yeah.
46:14
And Speaking of a more remote working environment for both employers and employees nowadays, it has forced businesses to approach this differently.

46:21
It's easier when you're in an office and you can go into the conference room and have a meeting and talk about all of these things.

46:27
But I think that especially after COVID and all of this really started taking hold, people were confused around how do I create that same camaraderie in a virtual space?
46:38
And it takes a different strategy and it takes more intention, I think, than what it used to.

46:44
Do you agree?
46:45
I agree.

46:46
And it also takes agreements, right? 46:49
 
An agreement that that Monday meeting sacred that everyone's on camera, that no one's answering e-mail during that time.

46:55
Like it's an it's there are agreements that need to be made that all the whole team agrees to and that are that are upheld.

47:06
Yes.
47:07
So calendar it, put it on paper, put it in stone, set the intention, make it a priority.
47:13
I love that.

47:14
And of course, you know, this is the Always and never about Money podcast.

47:18
And this whole conversation really boils down in money terms of how do we create a profitable business.

47:23
And in my experience, everything that we've talked about today, doing the right things completely outside of the money will position you to be in a place where profits can be a byproduct.
47:38
Yes.

47:38
And let me explain what that would look like.
47:41
So those of you listening, some of you may already know that you have hired B&C players, right?
47:49
They're you're tolerating a lack of performance.
47:52
You're not having difficult conversations
 
because what if you don't find anybody that's any better?

47:57
And the time it takes to hire and whatever the, the reasons the, the justifications are for holding on to them.

48:04
When you share your vision and you get people aligned, A players stay and A players do the work of 2B players and 3C players.

48:12
So that's a math equation guys.
48:15
You've got $100,000 a player, right?

48:17
That are that's doing the work of two BS that are you're probably playing paying the same amount and three CS.

48:25
It's highly profitable to have the most efficient, best performing team members on your team because they will outperform and they will thank you for it.

48:34
They won't outperform and blame you and be negative and complain about how overworked and overwhelmed they are.
48:40
They'll over perform and then ask you what else they can do because they're hungry and because they believe in the vision and that increases profitability and it also increases innovation because they're not afraid to speak their mind.

48:54
And they found a safe place where they can do that.

48:58
Yeah, it it really, truly does. 49:00
 
Everything you've talked about up to this point aligns with a healthy profit.

49:04
And because I know numbers and because I know people, some people feel guilty about having profit as the forefront, right?

49:11
They're like, oh, I'm a I'm a selfish person if all I'm focusing on is profit.
49:15
But what this conversation, I hope has done for its listeners that I know is that you can have both.
49:22
You can have all of it.
49:24
You can have a happy, functioning, collaborative team of leaders without sacrificing profit.
49:31
You don't have to choose, correct.

49:36
And can I say something to the people who don't own a business in here in terms of their vision?

49:41
So I think what gets overlooked is, is your your personal vision, what you want for your life and what you want for your family.

49:49
And I got this question on different podcasts that I was, that I was interviewing on.

49:54
It was a, it was actually a mom podcast, I think.
49:57
And how vision works with families.

50:01
I don't think there's anything more powerful than sharing with your kids what your vision is for your life and your family, because they're
 
going to want to be a part of it and they're going to want to support you in achieving it.

50:12
And they're, they, they also get the benefit of it.
50:16
So what works for a business will work for your family.
50:20
And it also creates an amazing conversation between you and your partner, like you should each do your vision separately and then come to the table and talk about what each of you want and then create a shared vision that honors both of your individual visions.

50:34
And then that should be shared with your family.

50:36
And you could share this with, I mean, you could share this with 5-6 year olds and they might not know everything, but they're going to get excited because you're excited and they like moving forward and they like helping.
50:46
And so they'll be more on board when you say things like, you know, we're not going to get that toy right now because we have a vision of doing this in the future.

50:55
And they're like, oh, that makes sense.
50:57
So it's not about that I'm not worth it.

50:59
It's that mom and dad are putting this money in in and going to use it in a different way that I'll benefit from at some point in time.

51:06
So I think sharing, like creating a vision for yourself personally is just as important as creating a vision for yourself professionally.
 

51:15
And then sharing that with those that you want to be a part of it is going to be really key.
51:21
What a perfect way to tie this conversation into not only owning a business, but applying this to your personal life if you don't own a business.

51:31
I'm going to insert an editor's note, Erica.

51:33
That is our recorded intro.
51:36
That was perfectly said.
51:37
That was for my my editor.

51:38
I need to let her know.
51:40
We're going to put that at the beginning of the episode because that was so powerful.
51:47
OK.

51:49
It has been a joy having this conversation with you today.

51:52
I love everything we've talked about.
51:55
And I really appreciate how, again, you can close that bridge and say, look, this is not just for business owners.
52:02
This is for every individual personally, because what we're looking at here is a core set of principles.
52:09
And just like your nutrition translated to
 
business and how I know money translates to other areas of life, that is what this podcast is for is to take these examples, these real life situations and help people put the pieces together in the rest of their life around how you do one thing is how you do most things.
52:28
And if we start somewhere, whether it's you're a business owner and you're leading a business and you know something's not right and you need to reach out to Steph or you're an individual just not knowing how to manage money.
52:39
We are connecting all the dots around here and I so appreciate you.

52:44
Thanks for having me.
52:45
This was super fun.
52:46
I could talk about this for days and days guys.

52:49
And for those that want to reach out to you, let them know where they can find you.

52:53
And folks, we'll put all of that information in the show notes as well.
52:56
Sure.
52:57
So my website is my just my name, steftus.com.

53:01
I'm on Instagram, I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on Facebook.

53:03
So anywhere you find me, if you message me, it will be me messaging you back.
53:07
 
I don't have any kind of bots or AI or anything attached to any of my accounts.

53:11
And I would honestly love to hear from anyone.
53:15
Thank you for that invitation.
53:16
You guys go take advantage.

53:18
Message Steph.
53:19
She will message you right back.

53:23
OK, that was good.
53:26
OK, Do you have a few minutes to try something new and fun?
53:31
OK, so I'm trying something new to kind of promote each episode on socials with like little reels.
53:39
And so we have these like bonus social clip questions to help promote it.
53:45
So I'm going to just like not rapid fire, but I'm going to spit off these questions and just let you answer them.
53:51
OK, I'm game.

53:52
OK, let's do this.
53:55
What is 1 myth about leadership that drives you nuts that the leader has to be the person that solves all the problems?
54:09
 
OK, what is 1 daily habit that helps you lead with clarity?

54:27
What's 1 daily habit that lets me lead with clarity, that helps you lead with clarity?
54:33
It's my morning ritual, my morning routine.
54:35
So it's I'm up, I'm either outside walking or doing yoga and then I study.

54:41
I'm a constant studier and constant learner of new things that's similar to mine.

54:47
I go say hello to my plants.
54:48
I listen to my podcast.

54:51
I do too.
54:51
I go say hello to my plants outside.
54:53
I do, I do.

54:56
And I have a garden this year.
54:57
So I'm saying hello to tomatoes, Peppers and cucumbers.
55:00
Yes, I've got flower pots and I I'm like, good morning, ladies.
55:03
How are you today?

55:06
Oh my gosh.
55:07
I'm gonna have to text you tomorrow morning.
 

55:08
My plants say hi.

55:12
All right.
55:12
And then the last one we have is what's a powerful reframe You offer liters in burnout, but this is not their natural state that this is a sign that something can be fixed and something can be solved.
55:31
And it's just an indicator that there is there is the potential and possibility for something greater on the other side of it.

55:40
I like that because that gives them hope instead of defeat.

55:43
It's the truth, right?
55:44
Like there's a reason they're experiencing it.

55:46
It's creating urgency to cause them to change.

55:49
It's how the whole entire universe works.
55:54
Mic drop, that was fun.

56:01
All right, well, I know we're at the end of the time.

56:02
I don't wanna take advantage of your time.
56:04
I truly appreciate you coming on and having this conversation.
56:08
It was really fun.
 
56:09
I enjoyed every second of it.

56:11
So I hope I covered all the bases and included everyone as trying to make sure and talk to people that potentially didn't own their own business.

56:19
But yeah, no, we, we did.

56:21
We wove it in.
56:22
And like I said, that one moment where you kind of tied the two together, that's going to be our recorded intro.
56:28
So right off the bat, they're translating our conversation and inserting home life with business when we use that, you know, So that'll work perfectly.

56:36
Awesome.
56:37
Let me know when you're gonna when you're gonna drop it.
56:39
I'm happy to help promote.

56:41
So of course, yeah.
56:43
When we get close to the release date, my team is gonna send you an e-mail with like everything and everything you need to know and just all of the things.

56:54
And if they need anything between now and that date, they'll reach out.
56:57
Like I think.
 
56:58
Did we get a headshot from you?

57:01
I I think so I think she had to ask me a second time and I apologized.

57:07
So I think you've got the headshot.
57:09
I'll I'll go back in my e-mail and make sure that it was sent OK and no problem if we don't have it, we've got a checklist in here.
57:15
They'll catch it and reach out for it.

57:17
But we will definitely be in touch with all the ways to help us promote your episode.

57:21
Cool.
57:21
All right, well, thank you so much.

57:28
And I I thank you for more than one thing.

57:31
Like the whole bugs on my face.
57:33
I was just thinking in my head, like, do I mention it or just came full circle?
57:38
Yes.

57:41
Oh, my goodness.
57:42
All right, Well, enjoy the rest of your Tuesday and the rest of your week.
57:45
Thanks.
 
57:46
You too.

57:46
Talk to you soon.
57:47
Take care.
57:48
All right, bye.